Installing JRSC on A6 Info & Opinions

DRMORTYDRMORTY Council Member
in Engine & Drivetrain
I have an A6 sitting on the stand & a JRSC laying on the counter & installing on my Auto Trans.

I have spoken with tech support at Jackson Racing/Moss Motors and have everything ready to go..

I am not building this to RACE... Just to drive, Lift 2 Inches add Bigger Tires & eventually to tow a Wago-Camper
The A6 is Bone Stock... Running on an OBD0 EX auto ECU
The JRSC is a fresh rebuild with the Baby 7lb pulley.
Automatic Stock Trans ( is my daily & nice to drive that way )

Here is what I am looking at and questioning:
1. Pros & Cons of Widenband O2 setup?
2. Bigger Injectors?
3. Bigger Fuel Pump?
4. Bigger Throttle Body?
5. Stand Alone ECU ( I have a Hal-Tech setup for OBD2, so eventually )
6. Y8 Vtec head?

Any Thoughts and Positive opinions are appreciated.

Comments

  • DRMORTYDRMORTY Council Member
    And Eventually if I find that the setup is too wimpy for towing. I will switch it all for an LS..
  • Dash-N-CarsDash-N-Cars Senior Wagonist
    DRMORTY wrote:
    And Eventually if I find that the setup is too wimpy for towing. I will switch it all for an LS..


    Annnd sell you JRSC to me :mrgreen:
  • byrne_06byrne_06 New Wagonist
    I had a crx that was supercharged and loved it. Plenty of power, good torque. My only concern i would think about is that on my setup i only had a three ribbed belt and it seemed to stretch quick often.

    Y8 head with A6 bottom end, 9lbs pulley tuned on e85 i made 195 Whp and 175ft/lbs, i was getting around 32 mpg on e85 which i thought was pretty good
  • DRMORTYDRMORTY Council Member
    byrne_06 wrote:
    I had a crx that was supercharged and loved it. Plenty of power, good torque. My only concern i would think about is that on my setup i only had a three ribbed belt and it seemed to stretch quick often.

    Y8 head with A6 bottom end, 9lbs pulley tuned on e85 i made 195 Whp and 175ft/lbs, i was getting around 32 mpg on e85 which i thought was pretty good

    Did you use a wideband O2 or any type of controller?
  • byrne_06byrne_06 New Wagonist
    No i was going to put one in but i had it dyno tuned so i trusted in my guy that tuned it
  • DRMORTYDRMORTY Council Member
    If my new pulleys and belt get here by Friday, I will have it in by Sunday... I can't wait..
  • Evo_Seb08Evo_Seb08 Band Wagon
    I personally think the y8 head would be too much compression to supercharge, or atleast border line. I have messed with all-motor D-series much, but I think the compression ration is about 11:1 with that head. But Im not certain on that. You can google "honda compression calculator" by zealworks and that will give you an idea of your compression.'

    Supercharge is great! Especially for low end torque which is much needed for towing. I would DEFINITELY do bigger injectors and a bigger fuel pump. Walbro 255 is very popular and affordable, but have you heard of Deatchwerks from Oklahoma city? I know the guys personally and their craftmen ship is awesome. They have an awesome facility and staff. They are very well known in the dsm and evo world for their injectors and now their new pumps.

    With the walbro, I can personally say that I only hit about 450whp on E85 till I was losing fuel pressure.
    The new D-werks Fuel pump is only $80 bucks more(i think) and has been tested to support just over 600whp ON E85. Which I think is very impressive, before evo owners use to have to resort to a dual pump system which would be a fortune, as this Dwerks pump is factory drop in.
    Link to testing --> http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyno-t ... mance.html

    As for a wideband O2, I would highly suggest buying one. it would be a sh!tty day if you got on the pedal and your car leaned out. You can pick up an AEM UEGO wideband for about 200 brand new. Very well worth it. And a wideband is basically a sensor that reads how rich and lean your vehicle is running, just in case you didnt know.

    And I see you have Haltech.. Never used it for hondas, but they work wonders on Evos. would definitely look into getting that to work for your set up. The wideband will be also a key tool when tuning.

    To me it seems like you have an awesome set-up here... Have any other questions, don't bother to ask. I've been boosting since highschool and can't get enough of it
  • JakerJaker familEE
    The engine will run best if it is tuned using larger injectors and stand alone engine management. I would no go as far as the Haltech. You're asking for a lot more trouble and effort to get the daily drivability that Honda has engineered into your OEM ECU. I know it won't be OEM anymore, but if you start with the OBD0 ECU and tune it with TurboEdit or some other form of free editing software, you'll be light years ahead of where you'll be starting from scratch with the Haltech.

    450cc DSM injectors will be more than enough for the plans you have, and they would be well supported with a Walbro 255 fuel pump. I would not trust the OEM fuel pump that is 20+ years old to be able to keep up. If you can run E85, I'd go there in a heartbeat. It runs so much cooler which is paramount with the JRSC. I don't have that luxury at all (sure wish I did).

    As has already been mentioned, the wideband is a very useful tool as well as a safety measure. It's almost like an oil pressure dummy light. You will no longer have the OEM'ness of the Honda drivetrain with all it's safety and reliability. This tool will help you to know when things are going wrong. I'm a fan of the PLX products, and the SM-AFR can output a signal to the ECU that can be used for narrow band running that the factory ECU needs for fel economy and proper catalytic converter operation.


    It does not sound to me like you need a fuel pump capable of supporting 600hp, so don't spend the money.
  • DRMORTYDRMORTY Council Member
    Thanks for the input guys..

    Ok, Here is what I am thinking now.

    You guys have me convinced to get the wideband O2.
    I will hold off on the Hal-Tech for now. I will wait till I swap the head and convert up from OBD0.
    I have a Walbro 190 Fuel pump, so I will switch to it for now.
    I also have some 450 injectors & LS throttle body to through in it too.
    I am swapping out the Exhaust Manifold for a DC Header, but keeping the Cat & eliminating the the resonator. Little less back pressure, but still quite as I like it.

    Thanks again.

    I will post some updates of what happens with the install.
  • Evo_Seb08Evo_Seb08 Band Wagon
    I think the tuning really boils down to who you have tuning your car, ie. certified Haltech tuner and such... I daily drove on AEM EMS and it was great.

    and for me personally.... I would still get the Dwerks fuel pump. I have never had a walbro that has failed on me, but I know ppl that is has failed on. Dwerks is NEW to the fuel pump world, so I would wait for more results/reviews, but coming from a guy that keeps adding onto his car (power-wise) go big and never look back :wink:
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    I thought Wideband o2 sensors were NOT that useful for our OEM wgn?

    As far as the Y8 head.Do some research.I remember reading that the vtec cam does NOT work as well as you'd think with the SC.Something about the timing between the cam & vtec being out of sync.High compression being another 1 prob .
  • bikewrenchbikewrench Wagonist
    A wide band sensor is more useful than a narrow band on any car but you have to have a wide band controller witch our cars did not have stock. However they are easy to add.

    A narrow band is far less accurate. It will only tell you if you are at ether extreme or some where in the middle. It does not tell you exactly where you are in the middle. A wide band can give better readings of exactly where you are.
  • JakerJaker familEE
    The narrow band sensors are primarily desinged to keep the catalytic converter working at top efficiency, and that just happens to be at an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1. Then they design the engines to provide fuel efficiency and driveability at those air/fuel ratios.

    Those sensors are very accurate right around 14.7:1 and have a really wide "sweet spot" at that air/fuel. Outside of those numbers, the sensor essentially goes full rich or full lean, and the engine just compensates: out of the sweet spot on the lean side - add fuel, out of the sweet spot on the rich side, take away fuel. Plain and simple. Eventually the ECU learns that there's a certain amount of fuel to keep the engine at or near that sweet spot, and doesn't have to work as hard to keep it close.

    All bets are off though when you get into the throttle. That's when the dyno tuning at the factory takes over. As soon as you go beyond around 9 inches of vacuum, then the ECU goes into closed loop, ignores the O2 sensor, and reads the fuel tables for injector duration based on RPM, throttle openings and vacuum (load). There are other modifiers as well, but those are the main 3.

    So all this to say if you're reading the signal from the narrow band sensor, all you know is that it's at 14.7:1, or it's leaner than or richer than 14.7:1.
  • byrne_06byrne_06 New Wagonist
    Run the supercharger and y8 head you wont be let down man. I really wish i would of kept my supercharger for my wagon. i would recommend some kind of fuel pump upgrade i had a stock one in my car and worked great till about 5k then it started to drop and lean out.
  • leWolfleWolf Senior Wagonist
    if i were you, i'd just send the charger to the high speed labs and have it ported. Embree does some killer work and you can squeeze another lb of boost at least for $250. BTW for some reason the supercharger setup likes 4-1 headers better than 4-2-1 headers, no clue why. Wideband is a great idea to make sure your not having issues leaning out. Also ditch the JRSC rising rate crap, it works but for safety and not much more, just chip your ecu and go crome, way smoother power over the rising rate style.
    I'm still installing my supercharger and I'm just about excited enough to pee myself. :lol:
  • leWolfleWolf Senior Wagonist
    AlexanderleWolf wrote:
    if i were you, i'd just send the charger to the high speed labs and have it ported. Embree does some killer work and you can squeeze another lb of boost at least for $250. BTW for some reason the supercharger setup likes 4-1 headers better than 4-2-1 headers, no clue why. Wideband is a great idea to make sure your not having issues leaning out. Also ditch the JRSC rising rate crap, it works but for safety and not much more, just chip your ecu and go crome, way smoother power over the rising rate style.
    I'm still installing my supercharger and I'm just about excited enough to pee myself. :lol:

    Ok so It's all in and it sounds AWESOME! I feel like a kitty in a dope trailer! :lol:
  • TheGmanTheGman Wagonist
    Evo_Seb08 wrote:
    I personally think the y8 head would be too much compression to supercharge, or atleast border line. I have messed with all-motor D-series much, but I think the compression ration is about 11:1 with that head. But Im not certain on that. You can google "honda compression calculator" by zealworks and that will give you an idea of your compression.'


    I've already spent an hour messing around with that website.
    Probably my new favorite time killer.
  • leWolfleWolf Senior Wagonist
    TheGman wrote:
    Evo_Seb08 wrote:
    I personally think the y8 head would be too much compression to supercharge, or atleast border line. I have messed with all-motor D-series much, but I think the compression ration is about 11:1 with that head. But Im not certain on that. You can google "honda compression calculator" by zealworks and that will give you an idea of your compression.'


    I've already spent an hour messing around with that website.
    Probably my new favorite time killer.

    Just so you know i was seeing killer JRSC setups with 10-1 CR. thats where I'm going.
  • deceptionx00deceptionx00 Band Wagon
    I have a JRSC on my Type R and its fun if your not power hungry. Has a good balance of power and drivability. 146.jpg

    I intercooled mine with a custom air to water intercooler from LHT because I was concerned with the high intake air temps that JRSC are known for.
  • MoonMoon Band Wagon
    deceptionx00 wrote:
    I have a JRSC on my Type R and its fun if your not power hungry. Has a good balance of power and drivability. 146.jpg

    I intercooled mine with a custom air to water intercooler from LHT because I was concerned with the high intake air temps that JRSC are known for.
  • leWolfleWolf Senior Wagonist
    deceptionx00 wrote:
    I have a JRSC on my Type R and its fun if your not power hungry. Has a good balance of power and drivability. 146.jpg

    I intercooled mine with a custom air to water intercooler from LHT because I was concerned with the high intake air temps that JRSC are known for.
    Yeah, at the end of my 3rd gear pull I'm at 140 degrees and cruising I'm at 91 degrees. So hopefully it stays about there in the summer.
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    pros and cons of a wideband? there are no cons. only benefits and pros

    bigger injectors will be required. dont use the FMU crap. id recommend some DSM 450s and RDX injectors

    stock fuel pump should be good for around 200whp (sometimes more sometimes less... my stock 90 cx fuel pump was good for just over 200), which is more than the JRSC will make without custom laminova intercooling

    stock TB should be fine.

    standalone management is overkill. i would get a chipped obd1 ecu and an obd0 to obd1 conversion harness and call it a day.

    i LOVE the y8 head. but a Y8 head with the A6 bottom end and an .027 HG will give you some pretty high CR. not really JRSC safe IMHO. would require 92+ oct fuel if u wanted any decent power. after it heat soakes its going to be a dog...
  • JakerJaker familEE
    Water injection!
  • DRMORTYDRMORTY Council Member
    Jaker wrote:
    Water injection!

    I was thinking about water injection...

    I have water injection on an old 454 suburban of mine, and it let me cheat on the high octane fuel, which I needed after I decided to make it a sleeper suburban.. It could runs in the 12s in its hay day.

    I am going for torque, not speed. Just for towing the Wago-Camper comfortably. W/Auto trans.
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