DOHC ZC Code 9, I've tried it all and still not right

I just swapped a dohc zc into my 89 wagon. Swap went pretty well except I just can't get the thing running right now that it's in the car. I've had a topic going over on thezcr.com (http://www.thezcr.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23953) on the issue since I figured that'd be the place for topics like this but am still not getting anywhere.

The engine starts but runs rough and is a bit smokey. It's been throwing code 9 since I put it in. I've checked the sensor and it reads around 950 ohms at the plug and at the ecu. Here's a picture of how my cam timing is setup with the single mark on the crank pulley lined up with the sight on the timing cover.
1003.jpg

I've tried moving it a tooth in either direction on both the intake and exhaust cams but I still can't get rid of the code. It seems to run best with the intake cam advanced one tooth but it still is pretty rough and throwing code 9. I've checked compression and it reads 170-180psi in all cylinders.

I originally had high idle which I'm pretty sure was the fault of the eacv because it got better after I cleaned it. In the process of trying to figure the high idle out though I replace the PCV, all vacuum hoses, and dizzy cap (it had a small crack).

It is pretty hard to start and idle is really low and rough. At the timing pictured above it'll idle around 400 if it doesn't just die. Advanced one tooth it idles at 750 but rough. It seems to me like my timing is way off but I can't figure out what would be causing it.

Any ideas? This is driving me crazy.

Comments

  • evol911evol911 familEE
    I would try a different distributor. I had a problem like this on one of my ZC's. Everything wired right, timed right but it ran rough when it would run. The bearing failed in the dizzy causing some sensors in the dizzy to grenade themselves, but they were sneaky about cause some times it would work. Bought a reman dizzy from ebay and it fired right up and ran like a champ.
  • lafwagonlafwagon Wagonist
    make sure all the marks on the cam gears line up, just had same troubles in an ls swap
  • NZ-DB8RNZ-DB8R Moderator
    From that pic, it looks to me like its a tooth out on one of the cams, they are are sort of pointing like this / \
  • Timing marks on dohc zc are tricky, possibly because this motor uses parts from many series of blocks. LS or any other Honda dohc block does not suffer this confusing alignment. Start with the cam gears, use only the center tdc marks on the cans, the ones pointing at each other. Line those with the head, put the belt on and use 2 pairs of needle nosed vice grips, clamp the belt to the gears, not tight!! Just enough so the belt will stay put... now your crank should've been tdc already, fit the crank gear to the belt... then pump... then pully/tensioner.

    Dtc 9 is cyp, cylinder 1 sensor, its on the exhaust cam, I've bought a few of those in my time, around $150 from acura, 88/89 integra part... timing belt never threw that code at me being retarded or advanced. Try flipping your wires to the sensor, worth a shot.

    Anyways, hope this helps :)
  • SikocivicSikocivic Wagonist
    Take the valvecover off and look at the cam caps right behind the cam gears. There are holes in them that line up with holes in the cams. With the "UP" arrows about in the position you have them you should be able to put a pin in each one of the cams to hold them in the proper position. I think I used a 3/16th drill bit on mine. Now the cams are correct. Then set the crank pulley marks and it should be good.Now tighten everything up and remove the pins, rotate the motor a few times by hand and check to see if everything still lines up. If it still throws the code 9 you may have a bad dizzy. You can use one from an 88-89 Integra.
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    Thanks for the input guys. I think I'm going to set it back to where it belongs. Like it is in the picture. In that picture I did check and make sure the holes in the cams were aligned so we will go back to that since it should be right. Is there anyway to check and see if the dizzy is bad? Or is the only option to spend the money and see if it fixes it? I did repin the dizzy I have to the round (si) plug (it had a square one originally) and the two wires that are in the their own plug were pretty beat up too. Could a problem with those wires possibly cause this?
  • woodi wrote:
    Thanks for the input guys. I think I'm going to set it back to where it belongs. Like it is in the picture. In that picture I did check and make sure the holes in the cams were aligned so we will go back to that since it should be right. Is there anyway to check and see if the dizzy is bad? Or is the only option to spend the money and see if it fixes it? I did repin the dizzy I have to the round (si) plug (it had a square one originally) and the two wires that are in the their own plug were pretty beat up too. Could a problem with those wires possibly cause this?

    If its obd0 zc cyp 1 sensor is not in the dizzy, it's in the part that hooks up to the exhaust cam, next to the dizzy...
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    woodi wrote:
    Thanks for the input guys. I think I'm going to set it back to where it belongs. Like it is in the picture. In that picture I did check and make sure the holes in the cams were aligned so we will go back to that since it should be right. Is there anyway to check and see if the dizzy is bad? Or is the only option to spend the money and see if it fixes it? I did repin the dizzy I have to the round (si) plug (it had a square one originally) and the two wires that are in the their own plug were pretty beat up too. Could a problem with those wires possibly cause this?

    If its obd0 zc cyp 1 sensor is not in the dizzy, it's in the part that hooks up to the exhaust cam, next to the dizzy...

    Yeah I realize that. The original one I had the wires were pretty chewed up coming out of it so I picked up another used one and am using that. I have the same problem with both sensors.

    The two wires that are seperate coming out of the dizzy I believe are blue and black (just going from memory) Those were broken and I had to do a little interesting wiring to get them back together (they run around the outside of the housing and go in on the otherside as the rest of the wires). Could a problem with them have any relation to this?

    From what people were saying I was thinking that maybe if one of the sensors in the dizzy were bad it would be registering out of sync with the cyp 1 sensor and the computer would "believe" the sensor within the distributor and say that the signal coming from the cyp 1 was bad when actually the other sensor was wrong. Just a theory. I'm grasping at straws here.

    My timing seems really screwed up at this point and unless the marks on my crank pulley are wrong I'm pretty sure my cam timing is exactly where it should be.
  • The photo above looks correct as far as the cams look.
    Honda's obd0 is pretty strait up... you have 1 code, that's most likely the problem.
    The only sensors that throw codes that may not be related would be the o2.

    By all means it sounds like you may need a new dizzy,
    But anything bad with the sensors inside it have their own personal code.
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    Hmm okay... So based on that if my cam timing is correct and I'm getting correct electrical readings at the sensor and the ecu and I'm still throwing code 9 (on two different ecu's) and two different sensors is there any other possible theory of what could be causing it? Maybe both my cyp 1 sensors are bad. That seems crazy but I guess it could be the case.
  • woodi wrote:
    Hmm okay... So based on that if my cam timing is correct and I'm getting correct electrical readings at the sensor and the ecu and I'm still throwing code 9 (on two different ecu's) and two different sensors is there any other possible theory of what could be causing it? Maybe both my cyp 1 sensors are bad. That seems crazy but I guess it could be the case.

    have you checked the wiring between the sensor and ecu?
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    bikewrench wrote:
    woodi wrote:
    Hmm okay... So based on that if my cam timing is correct and I'm getting correct electrical readings at the sensor and the ecu and I'm still throwing code 9 (on two different ecu's) and two different sensors is there any other possible theory of what could be causing it? Maybe both my cyp 1 sensors are bad. That seems crazy but I guess it could be the case.

    have you checked the wiring between the sensor and ecu?

    Yeah...sorry that wasn't clear. That's what I meant by at the ecu. I unplugged the harness from the ecu and tested the resistance across pins c1 and c2 (blue/yellow and blue/green). It came out to about 960 ohms. I then tested continuity of each pin to ground and got nothing. I have also tried swapping the pins in the plug at the sensor in case I somehow got them spliced backwards.
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    evol911 wrote:
    I would try a different distributor. I had a problem like this on one of my ZC's. Everything wired right, timed right but it ran rough when it would run. The bearing failed in the dizzy causing some sensors in the dizzy to grenade themselves, but they were sneaky about cause some times it would work. Bought a reman dizzy from ebay and it fired right up and ran like a champ.

    I owe you a beer...or 6 sir. I'm about a month into trying to get this straitened out and that did the trick. No more cel and fires right up.

    I still am idling around 2500 rpms and blowing a bit of blue smoke. I need to figure that out. But the cel and hard starting and stumbling are gone. I have redone all my vacuum lines and replaced my pcv. Idle drops from 2500 to a wavery 1500 when EACV is unplugged. I've tried two different eacv's with the same result. The same goes for the map sensor and solenoid assembly. Any ideas on that part? I'm getting so close I just want to drive the thing.
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    How low can you get the idle by turning the idle adjustment screw all the way in? Try to get the idle to spec, or at least as low as you can, then use a timing light and check your timing.

    If the timing looks funny: take off your upper timing belt cover, set the engine to TDC by rotating the crank pulley with a wrench until the two lines on the cam sprockets point towards each other and are parallel to the cylinder head, then check the TDC mark on the crankshaft pulley and make sure it's lining up perfectly too. If it's not, then you need to go ahead and start removing stuff to get back down to where the timing belt wraps around the crankshaft - no need to undo the engine mount this time since you won't need to completely remove the belt. It's not a whole lot of fun but you need to secure the timing belt to cam sprockets at TDC to keep them in time, and remove the crank pulley (from now on referred to as CSP). Remove the lower timing cover, loosen the belt tensioner, and slip the belt off of the crankshaft. Reinstall lower timing cover and CSP (not to full torque), and rotate the crankshaft until the TDC notch (it's a bit to the right of the small group of 3 used to set the timing, it is sometimes painted white) lines up perfectly with the notch and pointer on the lower timing cover. Take off the CSP and lower timing cover, and reinstall the timing belt. Try to make sure that any slack is on the intake side of the belt's path, not the side towards the front of the car. Reinstall lower timing cover and CSP, then rotate the engine 3 full revolutions counter-clockwise using a wrench on the CSP to turn it. Keep turning counter clockwise until the TDC marks on the cam sprockets line up, then check to make sure that the TDC notch on the CSP also lines up with the notch and pointer on the lower timing cover. Make sure the timing cover is installed properly or it could give a false reading.

    Just FYI for anyone who reads this, if the notch you are trying to line up on the crank pulley is jumping around pretty severely when trying to check your timing (before loosening the bolts on the distributor to try and set the timing), then most likely the bearing is failing in your distributor. The overheating of the distr. components caused by the failing bearing causes some glue to melt away, and allows the coils on the magnetic sensor pickups to jump around on their posts. Eventually they will either fray a wire, give you a headache, or destroy themselves by contacting the distr. shaft.
  • Kov91Kov91 Band Wagon
    Hey I'm doing the same swap on my 91 but my injectors aren't pulsing and I've read some stuff about the dizzy wiring for the cam position sensor but I'm not sure what I have to do. Can you help me??
  • Are you putting an OBD0 DOHC ZC MPFI in a car that started with OBD0 DPFI D15B2?
    This link <CLICK ME> helped me tremendously.
    Essentially a bolt in with a few wiring changes. I did mine in a long weekend.

    Otherwise (like OBD1 DOHC ZC or an SOCH ZC or any of above going into MPFI wagon) I can't help.
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