(EE/EY/EF) Brake Upgrade Discussion

Hi all... for the most part, the front end of the 4th gen wagon is the same as the 4th gen Hatchback/3nd gen CRX in terms of suspension and braking.


Street car with occasional events:

1) Semi-race pads. Keep in mind that full race pads do not work until they are hot, which is why they are not a good choice on a street/daily driven ride. Seeing as the Wagon has Drum rear brakes, i would advise having semi-race grade shoes made, this can be done by a good brake shop if you give them your old set to use for measurements.

2) Slotted rotors/discs. I would recommend slotted rotors over drilled rotors as drilled rotors have a tendancy to warp on street/daily driven cars. Slotted rotors will still provide you with a clean brake surface and not risk warping or cracking.

3) Steel Braided Brake Lines. The Wagon uses the same replacements as the Hatchback and CRX. These improve braking response and ensure safety under hard braking.

4) High performance DOT 4/5 race brake fluid. It is not reccommended to use DOT5 fluid unless you have the above mentioned upgrades.

You can go as far as using a big-brake upgrade kit on the front and converting the rear to discs but on the street this would be money wasted, unless you are doing it for looks. However if you are a regular auto-crosser or track racer then a 'big brake kit' may be your best choice.
«13

Comments

  • pacifier wrote:
    You can go as far as using a big-brake upgrade kit on the front and converting the rear to discs but on the street this would be money wasted. However if you are a regular auto-crosser or track racer then this is a good path to take.

    why is that on the rear discs for street?

    ...jm.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Basicaly what i'm saying is if you don't race your wagon, your not going to see much value in a big brake kit.
    As for rear discs, its up to you.
  • kyle h.kyle h. Wagonist
    I've done the Legend dual piston caliper (same and the NSX, but better!) w/ prelude 11" rotors on my del sol. EX knuckles were nessesary to fit the caliper correctly. I use 16" wheels, its a tight fit, but I'm going to try a 15" for drag.

    Same brake setup would work on the wagon, but don't forget to up-size that master cylinder as well. I would personally leave the booster alone.

    Also rear disk brake conversion will probably only yeild a wider stance in the rear (from memory), which will help for cornering.

    Unless you are seriously improving the power output of the engine, via Forced Induction I would suggest keeping the stock braking system, with the above mentioned upgrades to it (from Pacifier).

    About those EX 10.2 brakes. Yea they would fit under 14" rims. You can also opt. for the accord wagon/type r calipers, which will fit under 15"s

    There is a good civic brake guide out there somewhere...search honda-tech.com and you will find it.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Such a pity that the rear on the RT4WD is trickier than the FWD. :(
  • davensdavens familEE
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned upgrading to the 15/16" master cylinder off of a '89 Accord LXi....especially if you're already doing all the other stuff.
    It simply bolts on to the stock Civic/CRX booster and vastly improves pedal feel.
  • kyle h.kyle h. Wagonist
    kyle h. wrote:
    but don't forget to up-size that master cylinder as well.
    davens wrote:
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned upgrading to the 15/16" master cylinder

    Hrm...no one did, did they? :P

    Depending on what brake setup you decide to go with try to match the master-cylinder.
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    will changing the master cylinder without anything else yield better braking and have a better braking feel or will it do nothing without more stuff changed.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    For normal street driving it's OK.For racing you should probably wait for at least 1 of the other mods.With the larger mstr .cyldr.=Shorter pedal stroke,But requiring heavier braking.For e.g. you also added EX frt.disc: it'll cancell out the heavier braking so you'll have Better braking ,w/o push pdl down as far & with about the same feel of the brk.pdl.
  • keep in mind, the wagon drums are wider than any other Civic's. they really don't need to be upgraded, especially when you consider how much more of your braking is done by the front brakes.

    if i had a regular Civic with drum rear brakes, i'd probably swap them for wagon drums. fwiw.
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    why do they call it a "15/16" master cylinder off of a '89 Accord LXi?

    if i replace it with this do i need to also ask for any new gaskets?

    is there even a better upgraded or aftermarket version?
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    i'm planning on auto-xing in my wagovan. Running 16.5 rims, but stock brake system. Any ideas?
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    You don't need to go all-out to have good brakes.

    A simple pad and fluid upgrade can improve things 100%. If you only intend on driving really hard for AutoX once in a while then i'd get some decent pads and some decent fluid and leave it at that. If you intend on getting serious then you can start upgrading rotors, calipers, boosters, master cylinders etc.
  • does anyone know if the 15/16" master cylinder from a 91 Prelude is a direct bolt on for the 91 wagon?
  • no one knows? ok, i'll go out and get one to try. (junkyard special!)
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    Pacifier wrote:
    You don't need to go all-out to have good brakes.

    A simple pad and fluid upgrade can improve things 100%. If you only intend on driving really hard for AutoX once in a while then i'd get some decent pads and some decent fluid and leave it at that. If you intend on getting serious then you can start upgrading rotors, calipers, boosters, master cylinders etc.

    Do you or anybody else know any aftermarket brake pads/drums that would fit on my 88 wagovan?
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    I was just on jdmunlimited.com and there was an ef8 front disc conversion. Does civic wagons/wagovans come with front disc? Or pads? I'm assuming pads but always good to ask. But has anybody done a front disc conversion?
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    wagons have front disk brakes that use pads. rear brakes are drums.

    :?
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    Could drums be upgraded? I really don't see the need for me having rear since I know I'm not going to be racing every import I see on the street or track.
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    u can swap them do disc but its kinda a bitch. just the other day i took my drums off turned them and adjusted them and it made a world of difference. them along with having my integra breaks up front my car stops awsome way better than when i first got the car.
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    I know upgrading to rear discs is a bitch. I just don't have the time to install them. I recently found Brembo drums. So I'm just going to go with those and high-performance brembo rotors w/ EBC pads in the front
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Do NOT touch EBC pads.

    Worst
    Fucking
    Brake
    Pads
    EVER!
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    Really?! What pads would you prefer?
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Ferodo, Hawk HP+ etc.

    Hell i'd much rather stock pads over EBC anyday.
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    Would it be necessary to upgrade to rear disc breaks if my wagovan is pulling about 210hp? Planning on spendin money on a complete k20 swap instead of a new car. Weird I know, but as my friend told me and got my convinced. BUy a new car when you're married.
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    the wagon drums are quite big and powerful so there really is no need to upgrade those as its only like 13% of the braking power... also i believe the rear disk upgrades only to tiny little rotors (unless you get like a 5-lug swap..)

    K20 is the way to go man. screw the new car 8)
  • NJCIVICWAGON1NJCIVICWAGON1 Council Member
    ZLITES wrote:
    Would it be necessary to upgrade to rear disc breaks if my wagovan is pulling about 210hp? Planning on spendin money on a complete k20 swap instead of a new car. Weird I know, but as my friend told me and got my convinced. BUy a new car when you're married.

    K Series! :shock: Props for you. Im telling you.... when I did my LS swap I thought my stock brakes can hold up but they didnt. I drive my wagon hard. It was not fun when I got up to 100mph+ and my stock brakes cant slow it down. I found myself downshifting all the time. Now that I have this Integra Type R suspension and brakes I eat my dashboard. She's stops on a dime. Nothing like a nice OEM upgrade. My opinion. You should upgrade you brakes if you going to put out 210hp.
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    wagodizzle wrote:
    the wagon drums are quite big and powerful so there really is no need to upgrade those as its only like 13% of the braking power... also i believe the rear disk upgrades only to tiny little rotors (unless you get like a 5-lug swap..)

    K20 is the way to go man. screw the new car 8)

    I don't have a 5-lug swap and I really don't think I would. Only because I don't have the time. But I don't have the k20 yet. It's only a plan. Because I know a b18c5 (integra type-r USDM spec i think) is about 180-195hp is alot cheaper than a k20. But who knows. I'm just saving up, but I'll take pictures and let you guys know which motor I choose. I found a place near my place that services complete motor/tranny swaps, but they charge a an arm and a leg.
  • White&NerdyWhite&Nerdy Senior Wagonist
    Only stockish rear disc conversion I can think of would be from a CRX Si, and even then I'm not sure it would work for RT4WD wagons. But like people said, unless you're doing track days or something similar, better front pads and fluid should be perfectly adequate.

    I'd go with something in an autocross compound that's more aggressive but requires no warm up like a track pad would. On previous cars I've had good experience with Hawk HP+ and EBC Greenstuff (yes, I'm contradicting Haydz here - I've never had a problem with EBC!)

    As for fluid, I've ran ATE Super Blue Racing in cars I used for street, autocross, and track days, and it's always worked well. In my last car, which never saw a track day :( I ran Valvoline synthetic, which is available at most parts stores rather than racing parts specialty shops like the ATE fluid. I never pushed it to the limit at a track day, but have been told it's about 90% as good and half the price. For street and autocross, it firmed up the pedal feel some and worked great. I have some left that I may use in the wagon, and I'll probably put Hawk HPS pads on it at some point. Good news is there's so much out there for the Civic/CRX Si, and RT4WD wagons use the same brakes. (And other parts - it's kinda neat to work on my wagon and my gf's 88 CRX Si... :D )
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    I might to some autoX here and there, but mainly I want the extra power to just burn these f-in kids with rich parents that buy them sti's or evo's etc. Other than that. I might just get new drums and just get like crossed, or slotted whatever front discs that would do best and get like aem or street hawk pads.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Get tried and trusted pads like Hawk HP+ or Mintex M1611, new OE rotors, a full fluid flush, new rear shoes and then go from there. If you need more than that then go with a better booster/master cyl and maybe some steel braided brake lines.
Sign In or Register to comment.