...disengage the 4WD in the summertime, when the roads are good? I was wondering if this might give me slightly better fuel economy, and keep some miles off the drivetrain not being used.
Makes sense. You should track it for a few tanks and let us know. I had mine disengaged for probably the first week it was running. I thought about leaving it, but we were supposed to get some shitty weather and I had planned to play in it. Never actually snowed unfortunately.
I track every number on most of my cars. I have tracked every penny thus far with my new RT. I'll post these numbers in the future. I may have to spend a few tanks this summer with it disengaged.
It would make a difference, but in my opinion that difference would be "immeasurable"! You are only disengaging the front portion of the driveshaft back to the VC. That is it. The rest is mechanically attached to the wheels, so they turn no matter what. If you really wanted to reduce drivetrain load, you would need to unbolt and remove the driveshaft from the viscous coupler back to the rear diff.
and to Charb, I don't really keep track of the mileage closely anymore. I just do a quick cell phone calculation when I top off to see how it did. I used to keep detailed logs but now I just drive. It does pretty good for being a 20 year old car with almost 230k on it.
But wait a sec, if "flip the switch", aren't you disengaging certain transmission internals (that route power to the rear DS) from turning as well? Or is it just the driveshaft?
But wait a sec, if "flip the switch", aren't you disengaging certain transmission internals (that route power to the rear DS) from turning as well? Or is it just the driveshaft?
I think what Jaker is saying, is the the driveshaft back through the axels is still going to continue to spin/drag. Because mechanically it's still all attached to the wheels/ground.
The lever in the transmission disengages the "drive gear" in the transfer case. From there, it's the driven gear into the driveshaft. In effect you are removing the load of one gear mesh (transfer case gears) and 2 bearings (driven gear bearings) as well as the inertia from the front 1/2 of the driveshaft.
However, as you've alluded to above, the rear portion of the driveshaft is mechanically (through the diff gears - ring and pinion) attached to the wheels, so that part of the driveshaft will continue to turn as long as the back wheels are turning. In fact, due to the design of the viscous coupler, the rear part of the driveshaft will cause the front portion to turn right along with it.
I was getting around 27-28 with the 4wd engaged. I switched it to 2wd and am now getting around 31-32 MPG, but then my propellor shaft vibrates when engaged (joints)
When you disengage the 4WD on a manual tranny, the engine no longer bogs down when you drop below 2k RPM. It's now possible to cruise below 2k RPM. My wife finds it easier to drive.
The car rolls more freely in neutral when in 2WD mode. I don't have to give it gas to back out of my driveway. I can just roll it out like I do with my Integra.
Engine braking has a less pronounced effect. When in 4WD and you let off the gas, it's like releasing a parachute in these cars.
You can let the clutch out more quickly without getting that big slam.
I'm confident that any of you will agree with these observations. Once you've done it once, changing drive modes takes less than 10mins and doesn't require you to remove any parts. It just takes a long prybar and two extensions. Give it a shot.
MPG results look promising but I'm waiting until winter when I switch it back to 4WD before I give the verdict.
When you disengage the 4WD on a manual tranny, the engine no longer bogs down when you drop below 2k RPM. It's now possible to cruise below 2k RPM. My wife finds it easier to drive.
Mine bogs under 2k rpm. Why does the rt4wd do that? I normally drive a crx and never had that problem so I thought I had a problem when my wagon did it? So it's normal?
The lever in the transmission disengages the "drive gear" in the transfer case. From there, it's the driven gear into the driveshaft. In effect you are removing the load of one gear mesh (transfer case gears) and 2 bearings (driven gear bearings) as well as the inertia from the front 1/2 of the driveshaft.
However, as you've alluded to above, the rear portion of the driveshaft is mechanically (through the diff gears - ring and pinion) attached to the wheels, so that part of the driveshaft will continue to turn as long as the back wheels are turning. In fact, due to the design of the viscous coupler, the rear part of the driveshaft will cause the front portion to turn right along with it.
I was thinking about this thread the other day seeing as it's summer time and the price of gas is going through the roof it might be a good time to switch back to 2WD and see if I can gain a few mpg. What I started thinking about is could switching to 2WD mode actually cause excessive wear and tear on the VC since as Jaker mentions here it will actually be locking up and spinning the front drive shaft all the time. Under normal driving conditions with the 4wd engage the front and rear spin at generally the same speed and the VC only locks up when the wheels slip. If you disengage the front half the VC will always either be slipping or locked up so it seems that there is potential there for wear on the VC, whether or not it would ever cause any problems is probably debatable but I was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts on that. Particularly people who may have switched back and forth between 2wd and 4wd mode for a few years and if they noticed any loss in 4wd performance.
On a related pipe dream sort of note I wish there was a way we could adapt manual locking/unlocking hubs into the rear of the RT
like most 4WD have on the front. Then if you flipped the tranny switch and unlocked the hubs it would just be like carrying a bit of extra weight around when the RT was in 2WD. True 2WD economy with the RT...
You got that right... Most of the RT owners around here have them because they want the 4wd...but if the roads are paved warm and dry it really doesn't serve much purpose...come mud or snow though and back to 4wd we go...
There are several posts on this site with the exact information you are looking for. One of them even includes a scan of the page from the Helms manual with the details on how to do it "a la Honda".
I have always been afraid of disengaing mine. In the owner's manual, it states that this is for service only, and should be returned to normal (4wd) after servicing. I am not saying it is bad, I just never saw the need. Not when I had 248k miles, and was already getting 30+ MPG in the city.
Also, I had a friend break the stuck bolts when loosening it. So I just left it alone.
My bolt also broke when i tried to loosen it, deceptakhan. I had to spend a few extra hours drilling it out and tapping threads for a new bolt. Once done, however, i noticed all of these perks of disabling the 4WD that were mentioned in prior posts. It's great for the summer, but I'll definitely be switching it back for winter.
Interesting lines folks. I have my RT4wd, but always looking to be economical, I too have been thinking of running it in 2 all summer until I need it for snow. BUT, as some have alluded to there could be some drawbacks. I was told by a wise old man, my dad, (who had this civic before me) that 1) I'd save more $$ making my own coffee (i.e. negligible gas savings), 2) you run the risk of wearing/burning out the VC and 3) enough things rattle around enough more that something else is bound to get damaged. All together, seems like it might not be worth it. BUT since I'm ever curious and seriously math minded (I do love a good spreadsheet) I might go ahead and test it for a while and write up a report. I'll keep you posted.
Comments
I track every number on most of my cars. I have tracked every penny thus far with my new RT. I'll post these numbers in the future. I may have to spend a few tanks this summer with it disengaged.
and to Charb, I don't really keep track of the mileage closely anymore. I just do a quick cell phone calculation when I top off to see how it did. I used to keep detailed logs but now I just drive. It does pretty good for being a 20 year old car with almost 230k on it.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential5.htm
Jaker's right, I don't think it'd make a noticeable difference.
I think what Jaker is saying, is the the driveshaft back through the axels is still going to continue to spin/drag. Because mechanically it's still all attached to the wheels/ground.
Jaker, is this what you're saying?
However, as you've alluded to above, the rear portion of the driveshaft is mechanically (through the diff gears - ring and pinion) attached to the wheels, so that part of the driveshaft will continue to turn as long as the back wheels are turning. In fact, due to the design of the viscous coupler, the rear part of the driveshaft will cause the front portion to turn right along with it.
The car rolls more freely in neutral when in 2WD mode. I don't have to give it gas to back out of my driveway. I can just roll it out like I do with my Integra.
Engine braking has a less pronounced effect. When in 4WD and you let off the gas, it's like releasing a parachute in these cars.
You can let the clutch out more quickly without getting that big slam.
I'm confident that any of you will agree with these observations. Once you've done it once, changing drive modes takes less than 10mins and doesn't require you to remove any parts. It just takes a long prybar and two extensions. Give it a shot.
MPG results look promising but I'm waiting until winter when I switch it back to 4WD before I give the verdict.
I was thinking about this thread the other day seeing as it's summer time and the price of gas is going through the roof it might be a good time to switch back to 2WD and see if I can gain a few mpg. What I started thinking about is could switching to 2WD mode actually cause excessive wear and tear on the VC since as Jaker mentions here it will actually be locking up and spinning the front drive shaft all the time. Under normal driving conditions with the 4wd engage the front and rear spin at generally the same speed and the VC only locks up when the wheels slip. If you disengage the front half the VC will always either be slipping or locked up so it seems that there is potential there for wear on the VC, whether or not it would ever cause any problems is probably debatable but I was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts on that. Particularly people who may have switched back and forth between 2wd and 4wd mode for a few years and if they noticed any loss in 4wd performance.
On a related pipe dream sort of note I wish there was a way we could adapt manual locking/unlocking hubs into the rear of the RT
like most 4WD have on the front. Then if you flipped the tranny switch and unlocked the hubs it would just be like carrying a bit of extra weight around when the RT was in 2WD. True 2WD economy with the RT...
Also, I had a friend break the stuck bolts when loosening it. So I just left it alone.
and what mileage did the car got ?
I'm really curious as to me it seems that this car is eating a lot of gas