DIY: Brake Upgrade - 10.3" brakes with DX knuckles
BrakeExpert
New Wagonist
10.3" rotors and Integra Caliper on a DX knuckle....it can be done.
Well everyone knows that for Integra brakes on your EK or EG, you bolt the GSR caliper to the EX/Si knuckles. But what if you have a DX? You have to swap to the EX knuckles. Well there is another way, if you have a wheel spacer (or angle grinder/mill) and a bench grinder. This is similar to what Jonathan_ED3 did on his EF, so here it is for you EK boys.
The problem with DX knuckles is that those two tabs for the caliper bracket are closer to the bearing and hub center. This means if you put on EX calipers over EX rotors, the calipers dont go out far enough, and wont fit. The ITR calipers are spaced farther than the EX calipers cause of the bracket. Amazingly, the ITR caliper on a DX knuckle does not clear the 11.1" ITR rotor as expected, but is damn close to clearing the EX rotor, and with some modding, is doable, as I did to my car.
Its not EXACTLY Integra sized brakes. Swapping to a GSR loaded knuckle is a real Integra setup, but this is slightly better, cause the ITR caliper takes a bigger, better pad, and you still use a 10.3" rotor. (The Civic EXs and Integras take the same exact rotor anyways.)
My 96 Civic Sedan LX is the 6th gen test mule for this setup. Basically, suspensionwise its a 96-00 Civic DX knuckle, bearing and hub, all stock. I pulled off my stock rotor and caliper/bracket.
Heres the dilemma: Rotor offset and pad clearence.
This is the 23T bracket (from a DC2 Integra Type-R, or from a 91-95 Acura Legend (single pot. caliper model). Here it is over a 99 Si rotor, same rotor on a 96-00 EX, same as a 94-01 Integra (not R), same as 99-00 Si. And according to brembo, same as DA 90-93 Integras and 94-95 Civic Si and EX models with ABS (the 10.4" front rotors. ) This is bolted to the stock LX knuckle.
This rotor hits the bracket and will not fit. In this picture however, I have pseudo spacers behind the rotor, just so I could screw it on and check s-word. The pseudo spacers are pieces of wood with tape on the back.
Setup is close to perfect. One idea I have is to make myself a what I concluded to be 3.2mm spacer to make sure the rotor doesnt hit the 23T bracket. There are no spacers on this, I'm actually using squares of wood from a paint stirrer that happened to be close to 3.2mm when measured between the rotor and hub.
Brake Pad Grinding
The backing plate of the brake pads had to be grinded so that they would not hit the rotor's hat.
This shows the gap, I DO have clearence between the rotor and pad, however the pad doesnt go all the way to the edge of the rotor to touch, bout 2 or 3mm short. With the pad spring, the pad DOES hit the rotor hat, so I will have to grind the brake pad backing to keep it from hitting.
Showing what I'm doing with the flashlight to show the gap.
This is the pad, ITR pads, grinded about a millimeter, maybe more, off the bottom of the backing plate to clear the rotor's hat so it won't make noise. I hit these pads with a bench grinder, about 5 minutes. The test fit was a success, the rotor does not hit the pad, and the caliper doesnt grab that part, nor did i dig into the pad material, so all is well.
Don't forget your shims and anti-vibration compound or they may squeal anyways!
Grinding the 23T bracket so the throat clears the rotor
Grinding that 23T bracket was much harder than everyone told me.
This is how you shave off 1/8" off the bracket, with a milling machine. Mounted on parallel cars and aligned with a dial indicator in the milling head to ensure that both surfaces were 100% parallel. I took off exactly .127 inches, or just a hair over 1/8" (3.2mm) and when mounted on the knuckle over the 10.4" rotor, the clearence in the caliper hangar's throat was equal on each side. So taking off a eighth of an inch is the perfect amount. I spraypainted the freshly cut aluminum surface with this tough black spraypaint, just for some protection.
Insted of Grinding the bracket, you can choose to make a 3.2mm wheel spacer between the hub and rotor. I chose the bracket grinding cause I felt it was safer, cause with a spacer, you can lose the hubcentric-ness, It may be off, and you increase the front track of the vehicle, giving more feedback a bit, but making steering harder, cause you affect the wheel's offset.
Ladies and gentlemen, The final product.
My 1996 Civic LX with stock knuckles, ITR pads and calipers over Civic EX 10.3" rotors.
Other Comments
Since you are going to the 57mm piston of the Integra, I reccomend a larger master cylinder. I got one from a 98 Integra Type-R because it bolted to my 96 Civic's hardlines and brake booster with no modifications at all. If keeping your stock drums, you may have a lot of nose dive, but no comment from me because I threw on the rear discs from a 95 Integra when I did this.
I have almost no nose dive, I dont know why Integra people say they have so much. maybe cause i was used to having drums back there, which do induce more nose dive than discs.
I also upgraded to stainless brake lines because a set of new ones was 91$ shipped with new washers, cheaper than I could get even a set of OEM rear disc brake lines from Honda, so i did all 4 wheels. Also, with the big fronts and rear discs, my brakes are great ( runnin Toyo Proxes tires) and I did not change the prop. valve. I have great brakes and no nose dive, so I'm not even gonna change the prop. valve.
Sorry about all the pics' quality, and thanks to Jonathan for the idea originally.
Well everyone knows that for Integra brakes on your EK or EG, you bolt the GSR caliper to the EX/Si knuckles. But what if you have a DX? You have to swap to the EX knuckles. Well there is another way, if you have a wheel spacer (or angle grinder/mill) and a bench grinder. This is similar to what Jonathan_ED3 did on his EF, so here it is for you EK boys.
The problem with DX knuckles is that those two tabs for the caliper bracket are closer to the bearing and hub center. This means if you put on EX calipers over EX rotors, the calipers dont go out far enough, and wont fit. The ITR calipers are spaced farther than the EX calipers cause of the bracket. Amazingly, the ITR caliper on a DX knuckle does not clear the 11.1" ITR rotor as expected, but is damn close to clearing the EX rotor, and with some modding, is doable, as I did to my car.
Its not EXACTLY Integra sized brakes. Swapping to a GSR loaded knuckle is a real Integra setup, but this is slightly better, cause the ITR caliper takes a bigger, better pad, and you still use a 10.3" rotor. (The Civic EXs and Integras take the same exact rotor anyways.)
My 96 Civic Sedan LX is the 6th gen test mule for this setup. Basically, suspensionwise its a 96-00 Civic DX knuckle, bearing and hub, all stock. I pulled off my stock rotor and caliper/bracket.
Heres the dilemma: Rotor offset and pad clearence.
This is the 23T bracket (from a DC2 Integra Type-R, or from a 91-95 Acura Legend (single pot. caliper model). Here it is over a 99 Si rotor, same rotor on a 96-00 EX, same as a 94-01 Integra (not R), same as 99-00 Si. And according to brembo, same as DA 90-93 Integras and 94-95 Civic Si and EX models with ABS (the 10.4" front rotors. ) This is bolted to the stock LX knuckle.
This rotor hits the bracket and will not fit. In this picture however, I have pseudo spacers behind the rotor, just so I could screw it on and check s-word. The pseudo spacers are pieces of wood with tape on the back.
Setup is close to perfect. One idea I have is to make myself a what I concluded to be 3.2mm spacer to make sure the rotor doesnt hit the 23T bracket. There are no spacers on this, I'm actually using squares of wood from a paint stirrer that happened to be close to 3.2mm when measured between the rotor and hub.
Brake Pad Grinding
The backing plate of the brake pads had to be grinded so that they would not hit the rotor's hat.
This shows the gap, I DO have clearence between the rotor and pad, however the pad doesnt go all the way to the edge of the rotor to touch, bout 2 or 3mm short. With the pad spring, the pad DOES hit the rotor hat, so I will have to grind the brake pad backing to keep it from hitting.
Showing what I'm doing with the flashlight to show the gap.
This is the pad, ITR pads, grinded about a millimeter, maybe more, off the bottom of the backing plate to clear the rotor's hat so it won't make noise. I hit these pads with a bench grinder, about 5 minutes. The test fit was a success, the rotor does not hit the pad, and the caliper doesnt grab that part, nor did i dig into the pad material, so all is well.
Don't forget your shims and anti-vibration compound or they may squeal anyways!
Grinding the 23T bracket so the throat clears the rotor
Grinding that 23T bracket was much harder than everyone told me.
This is how you shave off 1/8" off the bracket, with a milling machine. Mounted on parallel cars and aligned with a dial indicator in the milling head to ensure that both surfaces were 100% parallel. I took off exactly .127 inches, or just a hair over 1/8" (3.2mm) and when mounted on the knuckle over the 10.4" rotor, the clearence in the caliper hangar's throat was equal on each side. So taking off a eighth of an inch is the perfect amount. I spraypainted the freshly cut aluminum surface with this tough black spraypaint, just for some protection.
Insted of Grinding the bracket, you can choose to make a 3.2mm wheel spacer between the hub and rotor. I chose the bracket grinding cause I felt it was safer, cause with a spacer, you can lose the hubcentric-ness, It may be off, and you increase the front track of the vehicle, giving more feedback a bit, but making steering harder, cause you affect the wheel's offset.
Ladies and gentlemen, The final product.
My 1996 Civic LX with stock knuckles, ITR pads and calipers over Civic EX 10.3" rotors.
Other Comments
Since you are going to the 57mm piston of the Integra, I reccomend a larger master cylinder. I got one from a 98 Integra Type-R because it bolted to my 96 Civic's hardlines and brake booster with no modifications at all. If keeping your stock drums, you may have a lot of nose dive, but no comment from me because I threw on the rear discs from a 95 Integra when I did this.
I have almost no nose dive, I dont know why Integra people say they have so much. maybe cause i was used to having drums back there, which do induce more nose dive than discs.
I also upgraded to stainless brake lines because a set of new ones was 91$ shipped with new washers, cheaper than I could get even a set of OEM rear disc brake lines from Honda, so i did all 4 wheels. Also, with the big fronts and rear discs, my brakes are great ( runnin Toyo Proxes tires) and I did not change the prop. valve. I have great brakes and no nose dive, so I'm not even gonna change the prop. valve.
Sorry about all the pics' quality, and thanks to Jonathan for the idea originally.
Comments
I spend a fair amount of time in the junkyard, I'll keep an eye out for trailing arms.
thanks in advance. im sure a lot of RT4wd and 2WD wagons will be happy to get that elusive rear disc conversion kit.
wagon....................................4ever..........................
He could probably point you towards some good yuri too!
LOL